Detail icon in the same table row to
see additional detail information on any of these
Assertion-Answer pairs.| Details | Summary Assertion | Summary Answer |
![]() |
Seminal assertion: Use of high quality dimensional composition roofing decreases property values. | This is factually false, see the Property Values page. Each of several types of research show that type of roofing has no effect property values, provided the roofing is Class A fire retardant. |
![]() |
Waterford owners as a whole disapprove of permission of high quality dimensional composition roofing. | The 2007 survey and the 2009 vote both showed 74% support for permission of high quality dimensional composition roofing. |
![]() |
Paul Raveling appointed Roofing Committee Members biased toward accepting dimensional composition roofing. | This is factually false. Committee membership was self-selected by interested owners who were willing to volunteer. |
![]() |
..."the individual who provided the most technical information regarding roofing was not invited, first barred from the meetings, then finally allowed to attend but was not allowed to vote". | The first two points are factually false. The third was appropriate in recognition of a conflict of interest. |
![]() |
In
the 2009 ballot for she CC&R amendment the Board extended the
deadline for voting 2 or 3 times in order to try
to get the amendment to pass. Choice of 2 or 3 depends on the source of the assertion and the date of the assertion. |
This is factually false. The Board extended the deadline once because we recognized a mailing problem that left an unknown number of Owners without ballots. Remailing, then extending the deadline to vote was done to assure that all Owners had a reasonable opportunity to vote. Additionally, by the time of the single extension the Association had not received enough ballots to pass a CC&R amendment even if 100% of the votes had been in favor. The issue was one of legal quorum, not of recognizing valid opinion of the Owners as a whole. |
![]() |
Because the Association has granted one variance from the Roofing CC&R to permit use of dimensional composition roofing in one specific case "the ARC will have a difficult time [to] disapprove future variance request if the composition is not approved" | This is factually false. Variances are instance-specific and are not precedents for ARC approvals. This is stated explicitly in CC&R Section 5.11 in the 1999 restatement of the CC&Rs. |
![]() |
"Request
from residents ... to contact developers who build developments
such as |
This is factually false. From context in this assertion and from other communications it appears that the local and national developer cited in the assertion is one who I had contacted by telephone. His most important comment was that choice of roofing on any single house does not affect the values of other nearby homes. He also indicated that his studies for new-construction markets do not apply to resale markets. |
![]() |
"When brought to the previous Board’s attention regarding the request of information from appraisers was incomplete and possibly giving us incorrect information nothing was ever done to clarify the concerns of the residents requesting resolution." | This is factually false. The single omission in question was carefully considered before the survey was sent to appraisers and was left in place as a measure to reduce possible bias in responses. The Association exercised exceptional diligence in reviewing and updating drafts of this survey. |
![]() |
"Incorrect information was sent out by the previous board regarding statement saving of 35% savings if residents chose to re-roof with composition instead of tile, steel or shake. When brought to the attention of the board this information was incorrect nothing was ever done to investigate or correct the misconception which has been the basis of some of the residents voting the way they did." | The
assertion probably is confusing an earlier internal review draft
document with the document circulated to Owners. The document released
to owners did not cite a percentage cost difference. Instead it cited
specific dollar-cost values from a test-case checked by the
Roofing Committee. The Board was fully engaged on this issue well before the document in question was approved and circulated. Also during this period, one Member of the Association and of the minority in the Roofing Committee was flooding the Association with email. The volume was so high that it was not feasible to respond to those incoming comments, the only possible prudent action was to note the messages and file them for reference if needed. |
![]() |
"Making
the statements, "the majority of
residents in |
The assertion is mathematically false. See Homeowners'
Opinion for additional information. The vote of the residents was 160 out of 216, not out of 393. This assertion demonstrates lack of understanding of the difference between a sample set and a population in the mathematical disciplines of probability and statistics. These are not esoteric concepts, they are typically taught in week 1 of any course in probability and statistics. The assertion is correct in the sense that the preceding CC&R vote did not produce an absolute majority of the actual population. It is incorrect in its failure to recognize a 74% majority of either sample set. Taking 0.74 as an Estimator, the two currently available sample sets demonstrate zero Error and zero Bias. The words Estimator, Error, and Bias are used here as they are formally defined in probability and statistics. |
![]() |
"A number of residents have asked why we as a board are addressing this issue again when it was voted down last year. When <redacted> asked the question at a board meeting we, the Board had to tell him we could not remember and would have to go back through the Board meeting notes and find the request." | The
answer is we are attempting to give a fair chance for a 74% majority
(±4.8%) of the membership to be recognized under law, instead of the
continuing case of a 26% minority overruling the majority. I have no personal recollection of the Board having ever given such a "can't remember" answer for this question to a Member. My corresponding question to those who ask this question is "Why to you continue asking the question? The Board has repeatedly stated the answer above with sufficient clarity for it to be undestood." |
![]() |
One Roofer asserted repeatedly that adoption of a CC&R change in the nearby Stonegate neighborhood was highly controversial and harmed Stonegate property values. | Suggestions that adoption of a CC&R amendment
in Stonegate to
permit use of dimensional composition roofing was highly controversial
was denied by personal contacts in Stonegate. A further suggestion that subsequent use of dimensional composition roofing in Stonegate had harmed its property values also was denied. A check covering 2009-2010 showed that property values for Stonegate have been higher than those for Waterford as measured by the customary metric of dollars per square foot for actual sales. |
![]() |
A circular dated 10-26-2010 and left at the doors of
Waterford homes stated: "We do not want to be the only village in Lake Forest that allows for "Composition Roofs". This implicitly asserts that no village other than Waterford is considering acceptance of "Composition Roofs". |
At
least four other villages in the area north of Green Valley
Road already have
composition roofs. The area of Lakehills Estates which I have
personally surveyed had 108 roofs visible from the street. 84
of
these had composition roofing. Extrapolation of the rate of composition roofs in that sample to the full set of lots in Lake Forest Estates produces an estimate of about 205 composition roofs in that village. Marina Village has a relatively small number of high-quality dimensional composition roofs. Lakeridge Oaks has approximately 12 high quality dimensional composition roofs in a community of just over 50 home. Checks of property values at the beginning of December, 2010 showed that all of these villages had higher property values than Waterford, and that had been generally true through 2009 and 2010. 4 villages in the Lake Forest peninsula area have CC&Rs with a clause to strictly prohibit composition shingles. 4 villages in this area have CC&Rs which specifically permit dimensional composition roofing, subject to ACC approval and in some cases to minimum quality requirements in a roofing CC&R. 7 villages in this area have CC&Rs with no explicit reference to composition roofing. Any regulation of composition roofing in these villages is by ACC approval and possibly by Architectural Rules. |
![]() |
"Over the past few years, the board has dwelled on a single issue -- that of acceptable roofing material -- rather than give attention to other, more positive activities." | This is factually false, as can be demonstrated by even casual inspection of meeting minutes and agendas. |
| "The board has spent well over $15K in ballots, mailers, attorney fees and the like over this single topic." | At
a minimum, this is extremely unlikely. I would like the author of this
statement to provide documentation. I have no personal knowledge of
existence of data to substantiate the claim. Since I am not at this time a director I am not permitted to comment publicly based on information outside of publicly accessible Association Records. The most I can note from public information is
As a past board member I am not uniformed and I have no personal knowledge of how to account for the claimed expenditures. It is difficult to postulate anything except that the original source of this claim was either a lie or an ad hominem delusion. | |
| "Last night we attended our HOA board meeting, where the board was repeatedly asked to explain why they ruled to overturn this denial. The board offered no explanation." | This is
factually false. I was in attendance at this meeting and noted that the
President of the board responded concisely and appropriately to state
reasons for granting the variance. She cited CC&R Section 5.11,
which authorizes instance-specific variances, and noted that there was
a factor in reasons for the variance which cannot be disclosed for
reason of owner privacy. When the Association receives information in
confidence it is not free to disclose that information publicly. The reference to denial is intended to refer to denial of an application for Architectural Review Committee approval. This confuses the ARC application process with the separate process of board response to a Member's request for a CC&R variance. |
|
| "We do not want to be the only village in Lake Forest that allows for 'Composition Roofs'." | The
overall Lake Forest area probably has around 300 homes with composition
roofs as of November, 2010. CC&Rs in not less than four Common
Interest Developments north of Green Valley Road permit at least high
quality dimensional composition roofing. In the Lakehills Estates area immediately north of Waterford I walked enough of that development to check roofing type on 108 homes. 84 used composition roofing. Of those, 75 used products of lower quality than would have been permitted by Waterford's proposed CC&R amendment. Lakehills Estates property values at that time were higher than Waterfords, using both dollars per square foot and dollars per home sale metrics. Web-accessible statistics showed that relationship to have been the case for most of the past 2 years. |
|
| "We, along with many other home owners, have tried to work with this board in understanding their reasoning for this blatant breach of our CC&Rs." | Only
two owners opposing dimensional composition roofing participated in the
Association's open processes spanning board meetings over about 4 years
and the protracted series of open meetings of the Roofing Committee. The writers of this statement approached the board only after Ray Myers had approached an attorney and raised the possibility of litigation. The public should understand that our legal system tends to produce legal direction to highly restrict communication on matters subject to potential litigation. This is especially true of involvement with potential litigants. |
|
| This table row is
reserved for future use only
in case of highly compelling need to answer a class of
personalized
assertions. Public discussion would be at risk of harmful degradation by raising these assertions openly; answers could be harmful to both the author(s) of the assertion and those targeted by the assertions. Consequently I decline to raise these as public issues: No one's reputation should be at risk in an honest public debate that answers questions strictly germane to the issues. |
||